Discussion:
Speaker enhancements for Seeburg M100C
(too old to reply)
m***@comcast.net
2005-09-18 19:55:21 UTC
Permalink
Are there any enhancements that can be made to the speaker, either
adding speakers or upgrading the exisiting speaker, to improve the
sound on a Seeburg M100C? Love the look of the juke and didn't expect
great sound but it sure would be nice if I could make the listening
experience more enjoyable.
Ken G.
2005-09-19 00:16:25 UTC
Permalink
Has the amp been properly rebuilt ?
Joseph A. 'Tony' Dziedzic
2005-09-19 00:58:35 UTC
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The amp and speaker combination aren't super high fidelity, but a C with a new
cartridge & styli, rebuilt amplifier, and good speaker will sound pretty darn
good. If you haven't had the amp rebuilt, or if you haven't checked the
speaker to see if the cone is damaged, rubbing, etc., that's where you should
start.

The following year Seeburg released the HF100G (HF = high fidelity); they made
some improvements to the amplifier, and added a small high-frequency speaker
mounted above the 15-inch main speaker. The sound on the G *is* better, but
I never did check to see if the difference was mainly due to the amplifier or
the additional speaker, or if it was a mixture of both.

I suppose you *could* try adding a small tweeter wired in series with the main
speaker (with a small electrolytic - 10 MFD or so as a high-pass filter) if
you've done all the other work already mentioned. I've never tried that so I
don't know how much improvement it would actually make.

Joseph "Tony" Dziedzic
Post by m***@comcast.net
Are there any enhancements that can be made to the speaker, either
adding speakers or upgrading the exisiting speaker, to improve the
sound on a Seeburg M100C? Love the look of the juke and didn't expect
great sound but it sure would be nice if I could make the listening
experience more enjoyable.
m***@comcast.net
2005-09-19 01:31:34 UTC
Permalink
Well I just purchased from a restorer and the amp was supposed to have
been rebuilt. Has the original red seeburg cartridge but new needles.
The speaker doesn't appear to be damaged as I don't hear any vibration
or distortion per se, (I have sufficient volume), I just don't know
what to expect.

I've been listening to my 45's for years, though only occasionally, on
my sound system with a Technics turntable and they sound pretty darn
good to my ear. Like I said I wasn't expecting comparable sound for a
mono system but most songs sound pretty average to poor to my ears.
Also don't know how somone new to this could tell if the amp was
rebuilt.

Thought that maybe there was some standard sound upgrade the
collectors/experts did to these jukes to enhance the sound.
Crazy George
2005-09-19 02:41:00 UTC
Permalink
Michael:

Let me share with you some comments I received many years ago when I
broached this subject. There are a number of different kinds of Jukebox
fanatics or lovers whichever. Most want to restore the box to original
condition, and in some cases, this is no sonic heaven. Others obtain a
"Library box" which is just the mechanism, and connect the cartridge into
the best amplifier and speaker combination they can afford. I don't recall
how good the C is for turntable rumble, or I would tell you to get the
stereo cart which fits that arm and connect it to your sound system.

Somewhere there are still some test records around which allow you to judge
the response of the amplifier and speaker. Lacking one of those, you need
the services of a competent audio shop to sweep the amplifier and speaker
and determine the frequency response and distortion. Unfortunately, my last
audiogram puts me beyond help in listening to good quality audio any longer,
so I can't offer to listen and give you an opinion.

-- HTH,
Crazy George
Post by m***@comcast.net
Well I just purchased from a restorer and the amp was supposed to have
been rebuilt. Has the original red seeburg cartridge but new needles.
The speaker doesn't appear to be damaged as I don't hear any vibration
or distortion per se, (I have sufficient volume), I just don't know
what to expect.
I've been listening to my 45's for years, though only occasionally, on
my sound system with a Technics turntable and they sound pretty darn
good to my ear. Like I said I wasn't expecting comparable sound for a
mono system but most songs sound pretty average to poor to my ears.
Also don't know how somone new to this could tell if the amp was
rebuilt.
Thought that maybe there was some standard sound upgrade the
collectors/experts did to these jukes to enhance the sound.
r***@juno.com
2005-09-19 03:10:51 UTC
Permalink
I'm no Seeburg expert, but the basics do apply What kind of records are
you playing? Original 45's from the 50's or reissues and new issue. If
this is the original cartridge and original style needles, they were
designed for mono 45's, not modern, post 1963 micro groove, records.
The main difference is in the size of the needle tip. What size were
the replacements? A 1 mil tip is for the older records, a .7 for the
newer. Look at it this way, a 1 mil is too large for micro groove and a
.7 is too small for older records. Note a .7 is better if you are
mixing old and new records.
Joseph A. 'Tony' Dziedzic
2005-09-19 03:14:41 UTC
Permalink
The original red head cartridge was not designed to track stereo 45 RPM
records. The original styli were basically diamond tips on metal studs. The
groove on a mono record is modulated in a side-to-side motion, and the orginal
stylus tracks that pretty well. The groove on a stereo record is modulated in
such a way that the stylus needs to move at a 45 degree angle to the groove;
very difficult for the "stud" type stylus.

The "stud on a flat piece of metal" (aka "stereo compatible") styli is an
attempt to produce a stylus that will properly track a stereo record. It's a
compromise, it doesn't track well, and doesn't produce the best sound. I've
never been all that impressed with them; it's a poor solution.

If you can locate one of the Pickering 345-03D cartridges that were produced
as a replacement you'll get much better sound. Unfortunately, those were
discontinued, and are very pricey now - commanding $300 or so. However,
that's going to be the way to get the best sound out of that juke when you're
using stereo records.

As far as the amp being rebuilt, the definition of "rebuilt" varies depending
on who did the work. Many folks will replace all the axial capacitors in the
amp (because they become "leaky" - i.e., act more like a resistor - as they
get old) and call that "rebuilt". Others will check resistance values and
replace resistors that have drifted out of tolerance. You can pop the rear
cover off the lower back door and see whether or not the original axial
coupling capacitors have been replaced. Look for signs of fresh solder, clean
components that stand out from the rest.

Tony
Post by m***@comcast.net
Well I just purchased from a restorer and the amp was supposed to have
been rebuilt. Has the original red seeburg cartridge but new needles.
The speaker doesn't appear to be damaged as I don't hear any vibration
or distortion per se, (I have sufficient volume), I just don't know
what to expect.
I've been listening to my 45's for years, though only occasionally, on
my sound system with a Technics turntable and they sound pretty darn
good to my ear. Like I said I wasn't expecting comparable sound for a
mono system but most songs sound pretty average to poor to my ears.
Also don't know how somone new to this could tell if the amp was
rebuilt.
Thought that maybe there was some standard sound upgrade the
collectors/experts did to these jukes to enhance the sound.
m***@comcast.net
2005-09-19 04:27:23 UTC
Permalink
Thanks to all for the comments and info.

Most of my 45's are from the 60's and with a few exceptions, were "new"
pressings of the original songs that I puchased in the late 70's and
early 80's before CD's pushed out everything in the stores. Since the
sixties is when stereo came into being most of the 45's are stereo
although a fair number are mono.

So do I take it then that most here are not using the red Seeburg
cartridge and so are there any alternatives besides the Pickering?

I'll check my box to see what was done with the amp but it seems like
my cartridge and needle might be the root of my problem. I guess as
another question, if SOME songs sound pretty good would that be an
indication that speaker/amp/etc are probably okay and that my sound
problems might be related to the use of the old cartridge?
Bob E.
2005-09-19 04:48:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@comcast.net
Thanks to all for the comments and info.
Most of my 45's are from the 60's and with a few exceptions, were "new"
pressings of the original songs that I puchased in the late 70's and
early 80's before CD's pushed out everything in the stores. Since the
sixties is when stereo came into being most of the 45's are stereo
although a fair number are mono.
So do I take it then that most here are not using the red Seeburg
cartridge and so are there any alternatives besides the Pickering?
You could use an actual stereo cartridge, and wire the two channels
in series. This would be somewhat cheaper, you see the stereo
redheads going for $50 or so on eBay, I think. You'd need to get
a stereo tonearm too, though (for the cartridge socket).
Post by m***@comcast.net
I'll check my box to see what was done with the amp but it seems like
my cartridge and needle might be the root of my problem. I guess as
another question, if SOME songs sound pretty good would that be an
indication that speaker/amp/etc are probably okay and that my sound
problems might be related to the use of the old cartridge?
Well, one test would be to find a good-condition record from the 50's
or very early 60's (that you know is monophonic) and see how that
sounds.

--Bob

=======================================================================
Bob Ellingson ***@halted.com
Halted Specialties Co., Inc. http://www.halted.com
3500 Ryder St. (408) 732-1573
Santa Clara, Calif. 95051 USA (408) 732-6428 (FAX)
Ken G.
2005-09-20 05:28:30 UTC
Permalink
Take the amp loose and look behind it to see if there ar new shiney
parts here & there . Old capacitors wee made of cardboard brown in color
coated in wax . New capacitors tend to be some bold color .

The old red cartridges were not the best .
I restored a Seeburg G and played around with cartridges . I borrowed an
expensive 300$ pickering cartridge to try and it did not do well .
I went to a local vending place who had a box of old cartridges and
bought a gold colored aluminum cased cartridge and rebuilt it .
It made the juke sound 50% better than with the red head without doing
anything to the amp . Nice deep bass that rattles the cabinet and clear
hi

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