Troubleshooting guidance for tormat based seeburg machines

[bob]

I have several Seeburg Jukeboxes I've been asked to look at in peoples homes
a model PFEAU1 and a DS160 H
Both have issues in the selection setting process and the recognition of the
selected titles
On the PFEAu1 the SSC3 had some fried parts in the logic that handles the
tormat read out
I got that squared away but there are still issues
I've bought the PFEAU1 manual an its a disappointment , So I'm working with
a USC2 and that manual to try to troubleshoot this
The manuals are terrible in troubleshooting these issues and before I waste
any money on the DS160 one I thought I'd give this group a try for advice
I'm hoping somebody can tell me an easy way to determine if I have recorder
credits to pick a title ,Once I pick one how do I know I've energized the
Tormat ( I have ea scope and all necessary equipment)
How can I tell the credit (a) have been deducted and is there an easy way to
tell a tormat is in a selected state?
Also do these machines suffer from dirty contacts on the connection that the
contact block rid eon
And are there common problems for not "seeing" selected songs
Thanks in Advance
Bob

[Tony Miller]

On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 01:16:27 GMT, "bob" <***@verizon.net>
wrote:
Bob;

As to whether a selection is Written-In or not, check my website:

http://home.pacbell.net/fmillera/troubleshoot.htm

for pointers. Try symptom 3, scans twice, plays nothing. Also, it
would be helpful to know how the tormat works:

http://home.pacbell.net/tormat.htm

Credit is established by inserting a coin. This will energize a
solenoid in the Pricing Unit. For the PFEAU1, this is a UDPU4 (if I
remember correctly) Inside is a white nylon credit wheel that looks
a bit like a circular saw blade. Credit will rotate it clockwise.
When you have credit, the Selector Latch Bar solenoid will energize
and the 'make any selection' lamp will light. Then you can make a
selection. When you press the second of the letter or number
button, the credit wheel will rotate counter-clockwise to subtract
the credit, and at the same time Write-In the selection into the
tormat. The DS is similar, but may use a different type of Pricing
Unit. It may be an SPU, which uses a paddle wheel with snap switches
instead of the nylon credit wheel, or may use a USPU/UDPE, which
will work similarly to what I described above for the PFEAU1. But
fundamentally, the operation is the same. The SPU paddle wheel will
have a switch closed by a solenoid with credit. Credit subtraction
rotates the wheel clockwise to run the switch up a ramp to open it.

Cheers,

Tony Miller

Post by bob
I have several Seeburg Jukeboxes I've been asked to look at in peoples homes
a model PFEAU1 and a DS160 H
Both have issues in the selection setting process and the recognition of the
selected titles
On the PFEAu1 the SSC3 had some fried parts in the logic that handles the
tormat read out
I got that squared away but there are still issues
I've bought the PFEAU1 manual an its a disappointment , So I'm working with
a USC2 and that manual to try to troubleshoot this
The manuals are terrible in troubleshooting these issues and before I waste
any money on the DS160 one I thought I'd give this group a try for advice
I'm hoping somebody can tell me an easy way to determine if I have recorder
credits to pick a title ,Once I pick one how do I know I've energized the
Tormat ( I have ea scope and all necessary equipment)
How can I tell the credit (a) have been deducted and is there an easy way to
tell a tormat is in a selected state?
Also do these machines suffer from dirty contacts on the connection that the
contact block rid eon
And are there common problems for not "seeing" selected songs
Thanks in Advance
Bob

[Jeremy Agema]

This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.

[bob]

Thanks I used the troubleshooting help and determined it was the 12aX7 amp
on the Tormat read and now its selecting properly but may have developed
another strange problem
If a song is playing and you select another it immediately rejects and goes
to the new selection
Anybody ever seen this?
Thanks
bob

Post by Jeremy Agema

Post by bob
I have several Seeburg Jukeboxes I've been asked to look at in peoples homes
a model PFEAU1 and a DS160 H
Both have issues in the selection setting process and the recognition of the
selected titles
On the PFEAu1 the SSC3 had some fried parts in the logic that handles the
tormat read out
I got that squared away but there are still issues
I've bought the PFEAU1 manual an its a disappointment , So I'm working with
a USC2 and that manual to try to troubleshoot this
The manuals are terrible in troubleshooting these issues and before I waste
any money on the DS160 one I thought I'd give this group a try for advice
I'm hoping somebody can tell me an easy way to determine if I have recorder
credits to pick a title ,Once I pick one how do I know I've energized the
Tormat ( I have ea scope and all necessary equipment)
How can I tell the credit (a) have been deducted and is there an easy way to
tell a tormat is in a selected state?
Also do these machines suffer from dirty contacts on the connection that the
contact block rid eon
And are there common problems for not "seeing" selected songs
Thanks in Advance
Bob

Hi Bob, Sounds like you have some good business lined up.
Of the 6 tormat jukes I have worked on I have found a couple of common
problems. 5 of these jukes were rebuilders - I was not trying to fix
one problem, I was going through the whole juke.
These are the common things I have noticed -
The detent switch must be in good condition and proper adjustment (set
of points located by the motor that pulse with every record space).
The contacts that ride along the bottom of the tormat must be in good
condition, there are small wires that attach to the contacts and these
can break off.
The capacitors in the control center must be in good condition, check
for proper voltage from the control center (check the service manual)
There is a contact in the credit unit that makes a path to "write in"
the selection. It is activated by the subtract solenoid. It must be
clean and properly adjusted.
The credits on these machines are stored mechanicaly (on a toothed
wheel). Normaly when there are credits the "select" light is lit.
Check out the troubleshooting section on Tonys' site
http://home.pacbell.net/fmillera/index.htm
The manuals are good to understand how things work. They were written
for the service tech who knows the theory of the tormat. That's why
they don't have a typical troublshooting guide like todays car
manuals.
There are diagrams in the service manuals that show the current path
for "write in" and "read out". Follow the paths, make sure everything
is working along the way and you will get things working properly in
no time.
For me, if I understand how something works I can usualy fix it.
Jeremy Agema

[John Robertson]

Post by bob
Thanks I used the troubleshooting help and determined it was the 12aX7 amp
on the Tormat read and now its selecting properly but may have developed
another strange problem
If a song is playing and you select another it immediately rejects and goes
to the new selection
Anybody ever seen this?
Thanks
bob

Check that the pulse amplifier is plugged in firmly, and tha tht eRCA
plug from the Tormat is plugged in properly.

John :-#)#

Post by bob

Post by Jeremy Agema

Post by bob
I have several Seeburg Jukeboxes I've been asked to look at in peoples homes
a model PFEAU1 and a DS160 H
Both have issues in the selection setting process and the recognition of the
selected titles
On the PFEAu1 the SSC3 had some fried parts in the logic that handles the
tormat read out
I got that squared away but there are still issues
I've bought the PFEAU1 manual an its a disappointment , So I'm working with
a USC2 and that manual to try to troubleshoot this
The manuals are terrible in troubleshooting these issues and before I waste
any money on the DS160 one I thought I'd give this group a try for advice
I'm hoping somebody can tell me an easy way to determine if I have recorder
credits to pick a title ,Once I pick one how do I know I've energized the
Tormat ( I have ea scope and all necessary equipment)
How can I tell the credit (a) have been deducted and is there an easy way to
tell a tormat is in a selected state?
Also do these machines suffer from dirty contacts on the connection that the
contact block rid eon
And are there common problems for not "seeing" selected songs
Thanks in Advance
Bob

Hi Bob, Sounds like you have some good business lined up.
Of the 6 tormat jukes I have worked on I have found a couple of common
problems. 5 of these jukes were rebuilders - I was not trying to fix
one problem, I was going through the whole juke.
These are the common things I have noticed -
The detent switch must be in good condition and proper adjustment (set
of points located by the motor that pulse with every record space).
The contacts that ride along the bottom of the tormat must be in good
condition, there are small wires that attach to the contacts and these
can break off.
The capacitors in the control center must be in good condition, check
for proper voltage from the control center (check the service manual)
There is a contact in the credit unit that makes a path to "write in"
the selection. It is activated by the subtract solenoid. It must be
clean and properly adjusted.
The credits on these machines are stored mechanicaly (on a toothed
wheel). Normaly when there are credits the "select" light is lit.
Check out the troubleshooting section on Tonys' site
http://home.pacbell.net/fmillera/index.htm
The manuals are good to understand how things work. They were written
for the service tech who knows the theory of the tormat. That's why
they don't have a typical troublshooting guide like todays car
manuals.
There are diagrams in the service manuals that show the current path
for "write in" and "read out". Follow the paths, make sure everything
is working along the way and you will get things working properly in
no time.
For me, if I understand how something works I can usualy fix it.
Jeremy Agema

[bob]

That was first on my list I assume the 12aX7 is the Pulse Amp is this
correct

Post by bob
Thanks I used the troubleshooting help and determined it was the 12aX7 amp
on the Tormat read and now its selecting properly but may have developed
another strange problem
If a song is playing and you select another it immediately rejects and goes
to the new selection
Anybody ever seen this?
Thanks
bob

Check that the pulse amplifier is plugged in firmly, and tha tht eRCA plug
from the Tormat is plugged in properly.
John :-#)#

Post by bob

Post by Jeremy Agema

Post by bob
I have several Seeburg Jukeboxes I've been asked to look at in peoples homes
a model PFEAU1 and a DS160 H
Both have issues in the selection setting process and the recognition
of
the
selected titles
On the PFEAu1 the SSC3 had some fried parts in the logic that handles the
tormat read out
I got that squared away but there are still issues
I've bought the PFEAU1 manual an its a disappointment , So I'm working with
a USC2 and that manual to try to troubleshoot this
The manuals are terrible in troubleshooting these issues and before I waste
any money on the DS160 one I thought I'd give this group a try for advice
I'm hoping somebody can tell me an easy way to determine if I have recorder
credits to pick a title ,Once I pick one how do I know I've energized the
Tormat ( I have ea scope and all necessary equipment)
How can I tell the credit (a) have been deducted and is there an easy
way
to
tell a tormat is in a selected state?
Also do these machines suffer from dirty contacts on the connection
that
the
contact block rid eon
And are there common problems for not "seeing" selected songs
Thanks in Advance
Bob

Hi Bob, Sounds like you have some good business lined up.
Of the 6 tormat jukes I have worked on I have found a couple of common
problems. 5 of these jukes were rebuilders - I was not trying to fix
one problem, I was going through the whole juke.
These are the common things I have noticed -
The detent switch must be in good condition and proper adjustment (set
of points located by the motor that pulse with every record space).
The contacts that ride along the bottom of the tormat must be in good
condition, there are small wires that attach to the contacts and these
can break off.
The capacitors in the control center must be in good condition, check
for proper voltage from the control center (check the service manual)
There is a contact in the credit unit that makes a path to "write in"
the selection. It is activated by the subtract solenoid. It must be
clean and properly adjusted.
The credits on these machines are stored mechanicaly (on a toothed
wheel). Normaly when there are credits the "select" light is lit.
Check out the troubleshooting section on Tonys' site
http://home.pacbell.net/fmillera/index.htm
The manuals are good to understand how things work. They were written
for the service tech who knows the theory of the tormat. That's why
they don't have a typical troublshooting guide like todays car
manuals.
There are diagrams in the service manuals that show the current path
for "write in" and "read out". Follow the paths, make sure everything
is working along the way and you will get things working properly in
no time.
For me, if I understand how something works I can usualy fix it.
Jeremy Agema

--
(Please post followups or tech enquires to the newsgroup) John's Jukes
Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call [phone]
or Fax [phone] (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."